Procrastinators Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from chronic procrastination.

Havi & Shiva Nata thread

I've been hearing a lot in the chatbox lately about Havi and Shiva Nata, so I thought I'd make a thread for discussion of the Pirate Queen and her shivanautical brain-training. If you've got questions, want to know if anyone's tried a particular product of hers, or want to share experiences, fire away :)

shiva nata beginner

So, my Shiva Nata DVD (from Havi, but of Andrey) arrived yesterday. I'm experimenting with the Level 1 movements. I had learned a subset of the horizontal arm movements in Chinese martial arts, several years back, but the vertical arm movements are totally new to me, so I have plenty of opportunities for flailing.

Jo, thanks for the Neil Keleher link. I don't know if I'll try his way of teaching or not, but I printed out his page of 64 arm combinations. I think that may help me get fast enough with the vertical combinations to keep up with Andrey on DVD at extra-slow speed. :P

I wish it were easier to see the difference between vertical 1 and vertical 3 on both Andrey's DVD and Neil's photos of the combos! But I plan to have a good time with it, anyway. Laughing 

vertical one and vertical three

he shows the difference real clearly in the videos - when I get a chance I'll find one and post a link 

Be confident.  Stay focused.   One thing at a time.

thanks, journey!

Thanks for the reassurance and link offer, Journey!

I guess I didn't make myself clear, though. I understand what I'm aiming for in vertical 1 and 3 positions--it's just physically hard for me to see which one is which when I'm playing the DVD or looking at a photo in which the demonstrator's position is directly facing the camera--foreshortening makes them look quite alike to me. Ah, middle-aged eyes. Undecided 

re: middle-aged eyes

oh yeah I hear that!  :grin:

Be confident.  Stay focused.   One thing at a time.

Yay, wrkinprogrss!

Welcome to the crew of shivanauts! I had no idea it was connected with Chinese martial arts - can you tell me more?

Verticals - You're not the only one who gets annoyed by them looking the same! Vertical 3 is palms facing straight up as if you're carrying something on them. Vertical 1 is backs of hands together (like the opposite of a prayer position).

Good luck!! Another good link is

Metaphor Mouse! Because playlists are better than tasklists.

Thanks, Lucky!

Thanks, Lucky!

I don't know how the horizontal Shiva Nata movements got into Chinese martial arts, though it wouldn't surprise me if wandering monks were involved. Wink

I just know that I learned the basic horizontal arm positions and a couple of the ways of combining them as part of warm-up exercises for Ba Gua Zhang, where my teachers called those things the "teacup" exercise (imagine a cup full of tea on each horizontally-held palm).

Ba Gua is one of the "internal" Chinese martial arts, along with Tai Chi and Hsing I.  (FYI, there's a Wikipedia article about Ba Gua at .) I don't think the teacup exercise had an actual martial application--I think it was practiced in Ba Gua for limberness, coordination, and, yes, building new neural pathways.

I think I understand the difference between vertical 1 and vertical 3--it's just hard for me to physically see which one is which when the demonstrator's body is oriented directly toward the camera.

wrkinprogrss, that's

wrkinprogrss, that's fascinating, thank you! Havi does the teacup-balancing thing but with a DUCK.

I also have the same problem with seeing what the demonstrator's doing. No suggestions, unfortunately :/ 

Metaphor Mouse! Because playlists are better than tasklists.

re: shiva nata

Thanks Lucky!  Cause I totally need to get back on track with this practice . . .

This guy has a good introduction also  (and it's free!) 

Be confident.  Stay focused.   One thing at a time.

Ooh! Thanks for that,

Ooh! Thanks for that, journey! I'm just getting back on track with it myself at the moment. Checked out your link and it seems like he has a very different approach from Havi - he focuses on learning it so you know it by heart and can do it without thinking: 

whereas Havi's focus is on flailing and getting it wrong :) According to her:

'As soon as you start practicing what you know or sort-of-know, the lightbulb moments disappear. That’s why we aim to get lost.'

So what's your experience been like with this guy so far? (If you don't mind my asking. You're not obliged to answer. :)

Metaphor Mouse! Because playlists are better than tasklists.

@lucky re: Neil Keleher

I really like him - he has a more logical approach, which is much easier for me to follow.    And his adorable little girl is in some of his videos with him :).   Some of his videos are restricted but you can see most of them on youtube by searching for Neil Keleher.  

Be confident.  Stay focused.   One thing at a time.