Procrastinators Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from chronic procrastination.

Online Meeting Time?

I'm back online, following up on the meeting topic - I doesn't appear that anything was confirmed as to a meeting schedule.  So I thought perhaps I should start a new thread at this point... (?)

Shall we come up with a day and time (or days and times) - or did I miss it somewhere?  Clement said 7:30 p.m. GMT, but no consensus about this, or which day.  I said Monday or Tuesday, but I'm flexible.


..This is a very unexpected thing to wake up to.

I just want to say that I (and I bet the others here on PA) appreciate all the effort and work you put on our chatbox, Pro - it was not a waste of time, it has made our chatbox feature all the better and more comfortable to use, and I'm sure it'll be put to good use in upcoming days.

As an ex-website/forum owner and administrator, I understand and appreciate where your concerns are coming from and see why you would feel the way you do, but as a member of the PA I assure you with utmost sincereity that there is nothing - and I mean nothing - in this particular situation that could in any way harm the traffic to PA or even disband or weaken our fellowship here!

I wasn't even aware that stepchat might have any forums on it, and I'm not going to check either, because anything they have won't be nearly as customized or as dedicated as what we have here on PA! This is by far the best procrastinator's forum I've been on, and I have checked many before finally finding and settling on PA. I wouldn't give it up for the world, and I'm sure all those whom have benifited from our fellowship and whom have made friends here will agree with me. The atmosphere on PA has always been understanding, open, supportive, and friendly, and I hope that something as minor as this incident won't change that. It is the main charm of PA and one of the major reasons I keep coming back here after my periodical disappearances.

Yesterday was the first 12 step meeting of any kind that I've ever been to, and I found it to be very enlightening, particularly since it helped me notice patterns in others that I have been obliviously following myself. I will be honest here and confess that I was one of those who encouraged the move to the stepchat chatroom, but not because of any privacy issues - I don't mind other PA members reading our logs, as these selfsame members could very easily have been there in the chat meeting and read it all. The reason I favored the other chatroom was merely because of its interface.  But stepchat is just a medium, just as our own chatroom is a medium. Using a particular phone service for a PA phone meeting wouldn't affect our fellowship anymore than these chatrooms would. It is what we do together that determines whether the fellowship will grow stronger or will weaken.

I think 12 step meetings should be an integral part of our fellowship as I believe they can be powerful tools in facilitating our "recovery", and I think that the quality and success of those meetings should be our main concern, not which medium we use. Let us not lose sight of what PA is all about, what it was created for. As Grail said, Pro, PA is your baby :) It is also our home and our sanctuary, and I for one am forever grateful to you for starting and maintaining it :) Let's do whatever we need to do, and use whatever tools we need to use, in order to make sure PA's objective is reached: and that is helping each other gain control over our life and bringing our procrastination to a minimum.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Nothing diminishes anxiety faster than action - Walter Anderson

bye for now from pro

I'm so completely pissed off about people leaving the site for online meetings that I need to take myself offline for a while.

Bye all.

Procrastination is the grave in which opportunity is buried.

Starting to feel uncomfortable about 'chat' issue.

I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with the way you are approaching this.

Actually, really really uncomfortable, and starting to feel upset.

Having a once a week, one hour meeting is not a threat to the site, it is an adjunct. It is not something that can replace this site, it's not even a chatroom we can hang around in. It is not a problem unless you make it so.

Just to be clear, I was quite happy with having it in the chatbox, and having it logged, but some people are going to be talking about say, former or current addiction issues, and quite personal stuff. They have the right to know that they are only telling the people in the chat with them at the time, and not anyone who is on for the next 24 hours. I LIKE the log on our chatbox, and don't want to lose that.

Finally, you are quite literally trying to control us, me, and the other members of the site, through direct and emotional manipulation.
That is what I am especially upset and irritated by. It makes this not feel like a safe zone for me.
We are adults, we have the right to make our own choices.
What exactly about the current situation is it that makes you feel so upset? Fear that everyone is going to leave due to a 1 hour meeting is legitimate (I mean, in the sense that your feelings are your feelings, and you cannot deny their existence, even if they aren't reasonable), but it is not a realistic fear. Is it the lack of control over the situation that is bothering you?
If you cannot deal with this, if this is not acceptable for you, then this is not a good or safe place for me to be.

I can't tell you how upset this makes me feel...

then go to the other site

I can't stop you. Do whatever you want.

Procrastination is the grave in which opportunity is buried.

Ok, now I'm feeling worse...

Wait, go to the other site and do what?
You mean, for one hour, next week?
It's just an AA site... It just has chatrooms, that you need to book, it doesn't even have a forum...

Oh wow. You are trying to stop me. You just "can't".
You've been saying that the site will die, that it will hurt the fellowship if we do this, that you're pissed and angry at us.
That's... not reasonable and not fair.

Do you have control issues? You don't need to tell me, you need to ask yourself.
Look, we all have issues. We wouldn't be on this site otherwise, but we're trying to *deal* with them.

I was in favour of having it in the chatbox originally, and moving back in the chatbox - there's a good probability that that would have happened *anyway*/still will happen. It just didn't move today because the date & time had already been set when you set the logging etc.

Also, you just said that you'd make changes that meant the chatbox was available for the meeting - you didn't actually post to the message thread and request we change back to the chatbox. o_O
It is the fact that it's a 'site'? Would you have been less upset if a random IRC channel had been set up for it?

And now... well, now I'm feeling so very upset, and very uncomfortable, with being here, on this site.
I don't like this. I thought I *had* found a fellowship, and I really, really do want to resolve this.
I haven't tried to do anything to hurt you, or the site, and I don't need people being rude to me.

I don't care!!!!

There is a good reason why I said I need to stay off this site for a while. I'm really angry.

I said earlier in the week I'd make the necessary changes to the chatbox this weekend and I did. What a waste of my time. Why did I bother?

You keep repeating that your feelings are hurt, like that will change something. I cannot take care of anybody's feelings here. Your feelings are your responsibility, not mine.

Your psychoanalyzing me pisses me off. Who gives you the right to invade my boundaries in that way? And you say you feel unsafe? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

I don't want to discuss this anymore.

I will have to go to another site to get support for myself because I'm so completely pissed off.

Good bye, good night, stay, go. I don't care!!!!

I'm logging off now - don't know when I'll be back.

I'm hoping that when I come back, all the people like you who don't like this site or think I'm a control freak or whatever are gone, and we can go back to having a nice supportive group here. You can go have your other group.

Procrastination is the grave in which opportunity is buried.


I want to apologise for my part in this, and make amends for any errors I have made:

* I am sorry for taking statements so personally, the earlier statement were general, and not directed at me
* I am sorry for reacting with demand resistance, *even* against ideas I was in favour of. While this is not always a bad thing, it's easy enough to have problems online, that it's really important to minimise conflict situations.
* I am sorry for anyone who is upset by anything I have done.

To Pro:
a) You started this group, you've done a lot of work on it, no one is denying that, or trying to change that, no one wants to change that. It's *your* baby.
b) No one is taking the group away from you.
c) I hope you do whatever you want to do, and what you need to do.
I hope you realise you don't have to go to a different support group, but I... this will sound ridiculous, but, I want to support you in whatever you need to do.
d) I'm sorry if you've been upset by anything I've done. I don't want to make you do anything, and I'd just like the same favour in return.

I do want a support group. I don't want to tell other people what they have to do. I don't want other people telling me what I have to do. I don't want to make other people unnecessarily upset. I don't want to be upset.
I want to change, I want to support others in their change, I want to be supported in my change.

Finally, thank you for the suggestion Movingalong and Clement, I'm going to take a few days and just focus on the 12 step principles etc, and see where to go from there - and I wouldn't just leave a group for a single incident. Thank you.

Much love to everyone in the group.

try moving's suggetion?

moving suggested we Meditation on the 12 Traditions (that's a link to that thread).

Grail i can understand how you feel about this not feeling like a safe place.  But please dont cancel out the last N weeks how ever long you've been here.  If you were to leave, it would be a worse place for *me* and i am sure many others.  We need us all, you, pro, everyone.

moving says that when 12 step groups have issues, they meditate on the 12 steps.  I find wisdom and truth and beauty in the 12 step approach, so i'm willing to try that.  To trust that we/HP can work this out.

You're right, grail, we all have issues or we wouldnt' be here lol :)

I know that's true of me.  I'm not proud of my issues, my struggles, weaknesses, but i'm here because i cant figure out anything else to do with them.  And pro made this site, and i'm forever in his/her debt.

tentative 4/6/2008 Sun 7:30pm GMT

this is tentative because i have just applied to  i procrastinated.  I wish i could laugh at myself but i'm not in that kind of a mood today.  mostly i feel guilty.  And there's something else going on in my life that i have been working on last 2 days and i have to go back to it and dont really have time to do this.  Also, i procrastinated that other task, and it really has very little buffer.  And the task has heavy emotional content.  sorta like azya i guess, so that solidarity does actually make me feel a little better.

Find Sun 7:30pm GMT in your timezone

Our group is called "procrastinators anonymous" (i hope i didnt misspell it) at

I willl try to post when/if i get confirmation, but you might have to just go to and try to find our group.  We can always post here about whether it's working or not.

This is tomorrow!  that's "soon."

Thanks for all the effort Clement

Thanks so much for doing all the work to get this going.  *I* feel guilty :-( I guess it was kinda my idea, but truth is I could not take the time to do the set up just now.

Clement, it's good by me that you do whatever you need to in order to take care of yourself, even if it means we have to wait another week to have a meeting. 

I just registered at stepchat but i don't see our meeting on the schedule. Is it possible we can enter the room anyways, and simply use it, even though there is no officially set meeting?  It sort of seemed that way.

And it's entirely possible I've missed something here, in the conversations, since I'm up to my ears in a couple of projects. But I will be there 12:30 p.m. my time... 

Thanks again Clement.

i will be here today 7:30pm GMT regardless

i haven't heard from yet.  Maybe they only respond on weekdays.  but i will be here on the forum at that time regardless.  I've worked it into my schedule.  If nothing else we can chat in the chatbox--whose logs are now purged (thanks pro).  We can discuss what to do for the next meeting, if nothing else.

progress not perfection.  I hoping.  trusting.

I really need to focus on step 3 today for the other areas of my life.

stepchat seems to be accessible

Hey Clement,
Well I just logged on and the room is available. I'm doing about 5 things at once, including talking to myself in stepchat. See you all there.

please use the chat here rather than stepchat

I posted half a dozen messages this morning asking that people use the chatbox on this site. There is no reason to go to another site. The log here is now purged.

This site will die if people leave. It's a new fellowship. This would be bad for the fellowship, and there's no reason to do it.

Procrastination is the grave in which opportunity is buried.

chatbox or stepchat

Hi Pro,
I appreciate you going to all the trouble.  It wasn't clear to me what the plan was, so i was at both.  I don't think that using that chatroom would affect our membership here.  If anything we might gain more members.
There are some nice features that the chatbox here doesn't have. Perhaps it's not a big deal, but i do like the color coding of the participants names and formatting features. It is much easier to read than the all unformatted plain text.  Stepchat also has an indicator that someone is typing, which was helpful to know, so we could wait until they were finished.  But if we had a meeting moderator, I'm sure we could work out a protocol.
Mostly I just wanted to say, I don't see that having the chat there would affect this fellowship negatively at all.
Thanks again for all you help.
~ Azya

this fellowship needs your support (Azya)

The more active this site is, the more momentum for the fellowship.

You can do whatever you want, of course, but it would hurt this new fellowship to take meetings to a different site.

Procrastination is the grave in which opportunity is buried.

Re: Chat

Hi Pro,
that's cool, we can arrange to use the chatbox on site.
But if it helps, I don't think it'd negatively affect this site - The room is used by other groups & people, so it's not like we could use it at other times anyway, we just had a 'booking' for an hour, to use it as an adjunct to this site. :)

I hadn't actually seen your reply messages, as I'd only just woken up.

So, meeting next week 7.30GMT, here in our chatbox?

I will be with you in spirit

I have a minor emergency and must leave now ... can't make meeting today.
But I will be thinking of you.
I will come to the PA chatbox a couple of hours after the meeting is over ... if anyone is still there.

Clement, why not post "chatbox meeting" date/time in "announcements forum"?

gotta dash off now.

i didnt have time

before the meeting. And i had computer problems anyway.

Yes I agree that PA chatbox is best for now.

Now that the logging feature is fixed ... I think meeting in PA chatbox is fine for now.  We are still a small group and I think it's better to remain here at PA site.

(I merely suggested stepchat due to the logging issue, but pro has fixed that now.)


Mon 7:30GMT

it's better to have this discussion here, instead of in "chatbox logs":

I feel the need for us to do this--to act.  Monday 7:30pm GMT (view in various timezones)has been suggested and no objections nor other suggestions, so let's just say that's it. has been suggested here (as has our chatbox).  Our chatbox is logged. we dont know.  I would say we have to go with for now.  We can always adjust this later.
We're not going for perfection here, right, just progress ?!??!   are ya with me PAers??!

I'm willing to put a stake in the ground (rats i thot i could do it w/o making myself anxious, but here's that ol' anxiety creeping up.  ah well):

   Online Chat PA 12-Step Meeting : Mondays 7:30GMT starting 4/7/2008 (which will be tue 4/8 morning for New Zealand; view in various timezones)

Now, i'll leave it for someone else to contact the admins and setup the  Or if no one does, i'll do it.  But i will give into my aversion of actually doing more here.  Just so you know i'm one of you :) :) :) :)

log is just for 24 hours

The chatbox log is just for 24 hours. What is the big deal?

If you go off-site, you have less assurance of privacy than you have here.

I really so much regret this whole thing. I guess I'll just have to let it go because that's what you are going to do.

Procrastination is the grave in which opportunity is buried.

How about Sunday 7:30 PM GMT?

How about Sunday 7:30 PM GMT?

This would be Sunday mid-day in Pacific Time Zone; Sunday afternoon in New York; Sunday evening in Europe; and Monday morning at 7:30 AM in New Zealand.

Fortunately, although all the countries of the world switch back and forth to/from Daylight Savings on different dates, the last one this season is April 6th.   So the time you selected would work in most countries until late September when some (but not all) countries start changing clocks again.

I guess that could work.  Progress not perfection.

Any comments on my suggested time?

sun 7:30pm gmt works for me

7:30pm GMT in world timezones

it makes sense to have one on the weekend.  I'm sure there are others that can't make it during work.  and it's the weekend all over the world.

Azya, dose Sun work for you?

I think we're going to end up needing at least 2, eventually.

Meeting time...

Hey guys, thanks for all the consideration for New Zealand!

And Clement, 7.30am works better for me than 8.30am, either day, so that worked out well. No guarantee I won't sleep through it or be running late for work, but theorectically, it means I could get up, join in for half an hour to an hour, and then go to work - and not be late! :)
(I haven't been late all week - yeah!)

Either day is fine, although my Monday morning might be better, as I'm slightly better about making a point of going to bed early on Sunday night.

more on new zealand timezone

  • 7:30 PM GMT Sunday is 7:30 AM Monday in New Zealand -- Standard Time in Southern Hemisphere.
  • But during Southern Hemisphere Daylight Savings Time (October-March) -- this would be 8:30AM.
  • Grail has said that he/she prefers earlier than 8:30AM.
  • So would our New Zealander prefer:
    * 7:30 AM Standard and 8:30 AM Daylight Savings
    * 7:00 AM Standard and 8:00 AM Daylight Savings
    * 6:30 Standard and 7:30 Daylight Savings?

I think we have to keep the meetings at a set GMT time, because Daylight Savings changes dates in different months in different countries, and Northern and Southern Hemispheres have opposite seasons.

NZ time, E?

Given that Daylight Savings time is now another 6 months off, and we haven't had our 'first' meeting yet, ;) I'm going to go with 7:30am Standard. Or 7:00am. Er, either. I'll figure out daylight savings routine when I come to it (maybe I'll start going to work really early, maybe I'll become a morning person! Ha!)
Whichever works for everyone else?

E, what times would work better for you? Not that there's any obligation to come, just if one is more convenient for you, may as well have it then, right?

I hope there hasn't been too much focus on what time works for me - I'm just one person, and an odd timezone, so I'd hope that we pick something that works best for the most people. And I'll just hope that that does work for me also! ;D


 Thanks for asking, Grail. Edge, I believe is also in my time zone, (gmt +2). I am better on weekends, as then I can come whenever is convenient for everyone else. 7 - 7:30 PM GMT  on a Sunday would be fine for me.

Timing for Edge

I'm in a +3 GMT timezone, but considering how I'm currently unemployed and lounging at home all days of the week, any time you choose will be fine by me :-) Neither Monday nor Sunday are weekends here, but it's ok. *shrug* I'm game for anything.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Nothing diminishes anxiety faster than action - Walter Anderson

NZ mon morn is eve GMT

i just realied that your "monday morning" is Sun eve GMT.  so our Sun 7:30pm GMT is monday morning for you.  our first time was tue morn for you.

so both for grail and movingalong this time works better.

I think out of respect to the person who started this effort, Azya, we owe it to them to see if they can make this too.

Yes What time would Azya prefer?

I agree with Clement's comment:
"I think out of respect to the person who started this effort, Azya, we owe it to them to see if they can make this too".

Azya, would any of these work for you?

Sunday 6:30PM GMT (Sunday 11:30AM Mountain Standard Time)
Sunday 7PM GMT (Sunday noon Mountain Standard Time)
Sunday 7:30PM GMT (Sunday 12:30 afternoon Mountain Standard Time)

Is the meeting time set?

Is the meeting set for Sun. or Mon. (I kinda lost track), and if so, when and how do we participate - I gather it is online rather then the tel. conf. we had before that was erratic.

Perhaps a post of time and how to participate in the Announcements forum would be good for those of us who need it and want to try to make it whenever it is.


That would be OK

Hi All,

Thanks Clement for contacting me on this, & everyone for thinking of me.  I did check the forum here yesterday, and I've been reading many of your posts, but haven't taken the time to post myself, and I guess it was before you had all chimed in on this one.

The good news is that, thanks to my own focus on the steps, I've been doing extremely well in tackling a very complex and emotionally challenging project, and I have other deadlines simultaneously.So far i'm not freaking out entirely or frozen like a deer in someone's headlights (that's the quaint expression a friend uses to describe me sometimes).

So as for the chnge of day, I think it is great if more people who want to come can make it at that time.  It should be ok for me generally speaking.  But being that it is mid-day Sunday, and one day I hope to have a life again (and the weather here is beautiful for hiking and it's that season where there are lots of weekend festivals and events in town...), I may not always be around at that time on the weekend. I probably will be tomorrow because of the aforementioned deadlines.

So I say - go for it!
Thanks again, everyone.

congratulations azya

I know that frozen in the headlights feeling all too well: I am happy that you have been able to move on now that you have taken the first step

I did these steps.  It's worth doing ahead of time.  I just kep clicking "Continue to step N" and it worked.

Let us know here if it doesnt work for you; this might change the decision.  I am open to anything.

time conflicts, to work out ... hmmmm

The time you suggested would be at 3:30 PM New York time.  I don't know how many North Americans could make a meeting then.

However, this would be around lunchtime Pacific Time zone.   That might work for some people.

meeting time conflicts

moving, do you want to come?  Are you saying the time does not work for you, personally?  We should definitely find a time where the people who want to attend can.  this time was picked so that no one around the world who posts would be a sleep.  It's 7:30am New Zealand time, and 10:30pm in Europe.  (i think i'm off by an hour, i think i was targeting 8:30am NZ and 11:30 Europe--oh well we can always change it.)  But if no one from New Zealand is attending, we could move it earlier.

Evenings might be the best time, but since it's not evening everywhere in the world at once it's hard to do that.

Another option would be to have more than one meeting, at various times that work for people in various time zones.

I really dont know a good solution here.  The rotation of the earth is working agains us :)

re: meeting time conflicts

I live in the Pacific Time Zone,  so "7:30PM GMT Monday" would occur during my workday.  I am not allowed to go to non-work-related websites while I am at my jobsite.  (This is monitored).

There is an internet cafe near my job site.   I don't own a laptop, but sometimes they let customers use their computer.  The meeting would be during my lunchbreak from my job, so maybe I could go to the cafe to catch part of a meeting.  But it would be very difficult.

I am going to suggest an alternate time, which I will suggest in a separate post on this same thread.

more meetings is/are good

Even if there are only a couple people at a meeting, it is helpful. Is there a fee for using stepchat?

We have to apply to stepchat, first

We have to apply to .. and request Room 5 at that time.

If we just show up, it will be random, and it won't show on their schedule. People from other addictions would wander in mid-meeting!  (They would be welcome, but it would be disruptive if they were specifically seeking one of their own meetings).

We need to specify which of their rooms to meet at.

Please read what I posted here:
-- specifically the post "Here's a 12-Step chatroom we could use:" ... and follow the links cited within my post to understand how stepchat works.


Stepchat policy questions ...

Regarding the questions many have asked:

NOTE: I found their privacy policy here:

I just wrote to stepchat to ask if they log the chats.

I just wrote to stepchat to ask if they charge for use of their rooms.

reply to Stepchat policy questions

I wrote to stepchat and asked them this:

<begin quote from movingalong>
We are considering starting online 12-Step meetings and are considering stepchat as one option.

Our members would like to know if the chats are logged.

One of the chatrooms we considered logged all the chats.  The logs would have been available for any of our registered members to read, even if they didn't attend a particular meeting. So some of us didn't feel comfortable with that (due to desire for the principle of  "what you see here, what you hear here, let it stay here").

Another question our membership has:  Is there a charge for use of these  chatrooms?  I didn't see that posted on your site, but perhaps I missed  it.

We are still trying to finalized a meeting time/date, and will contact you as soon as we have that info -- if we decide to apply to use your room 5.

But in the meantime, can you please answer the questions I have asked.
Our membership would like to know.
<end quote from movingalong>


Reply just received from stepchat:

<begin quote from stepchat>

The Parachat software that we use does allow for transcripts of chats to be recorded, but we have never turned that feature on, for the very same reasons that you mentioned.

No, there is no dues or fees for using our chat rooms. We are self-supporting through voluntary donations:

So, if you would mention making a donation at your meetings occassionally, that would be helpful.

If you have any other questions, please ask.

<end quote from stepchat>


7:30pm GMT Mondays

i'll confirm 7:30pm GMT, and let's say Mondays.

I've never done this before.  I assume we'd follow but i dont know.

I'm open to other times but i'm not sure anyone will suggest any.  We may have to get this started so that it's in place for when/if others want to join.

Let's not forget--this is a fellowship of procrastinators.  I would expect people to be routinely late, and often too backed up with work to be able to attend.  I would also expect that some people, face with their decision to attend a meeting, might feel demand resistance and rebel against themselves and thus have a hard time attending.

Ie, this meeting should somehow take into account the very unique and specialized situtaion and characteristics of the people who will be attending--procrastination addicts.

Good by me

Monday it is then. I really don't know much about running meetings either.  I'm sure we can wing it given the materials we currently have, and make improvements as we progress?

For myself personally, I clearly understand the issue of demand resistance.  But when you do hit bottom - and humility surfaces, surrendering to a time and place can be a blessing! Not so much of a blessing, however, that I'm inclined to go get a "real" job :laugh:

At any rate, I'll do my best to be there - I'm already appreciating having that to look forward to. Let me know if there is something I can do to help with running the meeting.  Thanks Clement!

positive attitude :)

with that positive attitude, i'm looking forward to it now too more than i'm dreading the commitment.  It feels like it will be a blessed time.

chatbox pa meeting 7:30 PM GMT Mondays!

I hope I can make it: it looks feasible! I am EXCITED!! I will forget about it unless I write about it each day, so....