Procrastinators Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from chronic procrastination.
on "God Talk"
This discussion was pulled from the August 27, 2009 daily check-in. A few people here are extremely religious. Many (most?) are not. We try to be tolerant of everybody, which is the main point I hope this thread makes. If you read an extremely religious post from someone, don't think that this means you must be extremely religious to be here. If you read a post from someone who is atheist, don't think that this means you must be atheist. Just be whatever you are in a tolerant way, and don't try to push anyone to think like you do.
12-step programs do not require you to be religious. Many atheists belong to 12-step programs and conceive of "higher power" in some interesting and inventive ways - the Tao, your own inner wisdom, the power of the group, whatever.
- pro
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this is pretty good.
I remember this discussion. I didnt know, or forgot, pro made it into a thread of its own. A sticky thread, even. It is worthy of sticky, cuz the Higher Power part of the 12 steps is indispensable, and yet our world is become more and more secular. And this website is part 12-step fellowship, part tools and techniques, chat and forum. So this intermixing is important for us.
I am really struck by the openness for for everyone to express their honest self, even if that be a life devoted to God. That really helps me
fall down seven times, get up eight - japanese proverb
CL daily overcoming
earlier than usual, and that makes me anxious. God give me strength and focus.
checked email -- there was none
9:20 read this site
i am weak today. i do not feel like i possess the strength to do the next right thing. I want to work out, it's healthy for me, but i just am filled with dread when i consider just doing it.
and now, to be perfectly honest, this is where i turn to god, but given that there are some non-theists on the site, i feel myself trying to phrase my own interaction with god in a way that will be accessible to them, but that's a distortion from what i actually think. So i'm trying not to do this, but in all these gyrations, i've lost track of my true feelings.
ironically, my dread is one of the things i've lost track of, so i guess i can just go work out now.
well, look at that, just as i move beyond this, and it becomes time to actually do it, the dread returns.
9:50 ok i prayed elsewhere and now i feel god's presence and power with me and i can do it.
9:50 wko
10:50 qt
11:20 work
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the touch of the master's hand: http://procrastinators-anonymous.org/node/1898#comment-27748
"fall down seven times, get up eight" - japanese proverb
surrender
This is such a diverse and supportive group, i absolutely love it.
Since ppl are being so open, i have thot much about my faith and the 12 steps and my irresistable urge to procrastinate.
What drew me here at first, and speaks powerfully to me every day is step 1 and 2.
step 1 - i am powerless. That is very scary thing i have experienced, and i see that despair in many ppl who come to this site.
step 2 - i need external help. I have noticed that when you look at how ppl rephrase step 2, and replace higher power, what they most often replace it with is something external. That the help comes from the outside is the daily reality that i live, and it is responsible for the progress i've made here. I can totally see how "the group conscious or wisdom" could be that external force for some people.
But the fact that it has to be external really follows directly on step 1, i am powerless.
i had already given my life to god before i came here, but step 3 in light of the addiction problem gave new meaning to that part of my life.
Now, when every bone in my body says i should NOT do the next right thing on my list...step 1, step 2, step 3, i surrender my will to god. I trust that god's wisdom is greater than mine. It seems so dangerous to ignore all those screaming voices to avoid/escape. I trust that god knows best, and i plunge forward into the snake pit, or so it seems. I wish i was being overly dramatic, but this is really what it's like for me. In my case, i need to believe in god, to trust that he will take care of me, when i go against my nature. Because when i do, i feel lost. And so i'm giving in to god's will. It's very much like that trust game, where you fall backwards and depend on others catching you.
and because of all that, i dont think i could manufacture belief in god for the purposes of the 12 steps. i dont think for me that would ever be strong enuf to counteract the overwhelming urge to procrastinate.
so that's how god works into the 12 steps for me.
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the touch of the master's hand: http://procrastinators-anonymous.org/node/1898#comment-27748
"fall down seven times, get up eight" - japanese proverb
Theism
I have gotten inspiration from some of your posts.
Personally, I like the references to theism. I would prefer there is no mention of any particular religion.
Progress not Prefection
God talk
clement, speaking only for myself, I for one would encourage you to speak in whatever God talk works for you here, rather than holding yourself back in a way that distorts what you think. Speaking for myself, so long as you don't tell ME (or others) how to think about God but merely speak for and from your own experience, I will not find that objectionable. Similarly, I hope that non-theists won't hold back in speaking in whatever terms reflect their understanding of reality, again so long as no one is dissing someone else's viewpoint.
~~
Want what you have. Be who you are. Do what you can. ~Forrest Church
The Hero's Code:
Show Up. Pay Attention. Speak the Truth. Let Go of the Outcome.
re: god talk
i really appreciate this. It is comforting to be asked to speak freely. yes.
and thats what i usually try to do. But it actually takes discipline. Because sometimes, as i'm writing, the thot will go thru my head, what would an atheist think of this? Would they think it weak? Then i have to show in my writing how it may appear weak and actually be strong. Will they think it foolish? Then i should show how it is wise. And before long, i'm having an imaginary debate with imaginary atheists, instead of actually trying to get the next right task done.
it's very hard for me to resist this. The cost is i lose track of my true state of mind, which is something i have to change to make forward progress, the whole point of writing in the first place.
i think this is somehow related to the procrastination, because it feels like an addictive urge, like obsessive thinking or something. Obsessive debating. Or the need to be 'right'.
But this is such a non-judgmental and accepting place, and that seems to be so key to the recovery we all experience here. I value that so much, i dont want to do anything to damage it.
There is such wisdom in the AA meeting text:
and now...i better stop obsessively thinking / writing about this topic and get onto my next right thing.
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the touch of the master's hand: http://procrastinators-anonymous.org/node/1898#comment-27748
"fall down seven times, get up eight" - japanese proverb
More on God talk
I couldn't agree more with everything that's been said here. I think it is incredibly
important that people feel comfortable sharing completely and openly
about their thoughts. Indeed, I don't think a community of support can
function unless everyone feels comfortable sharing that which they need
to share.
I, for one, fully support and respect people of faith, though a
non-theist myself. In fact, one of the reasons why I prefer the term
non-theist to atheist is that it has less implication of being
"against" religion or the concept of God. I also think that there is a
lot more in common between people of faith and non-theists than many
may initially assume. Many people regardless of religion, for
instance, have a strong moral code (whether from something like secular
humanist ideology or from a religious background), and seek deeper
connection with their world/community and sense of "greater purpose".
Thus, discussing your relationship with God (however you choose to
share it) in struggling against procrastination may well guide all of
us :)
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Nothing is so fatiguing as the eternal hanging on of an uncompleted task.
~William James
re: God talk
I can't really add anything, so I'll just say ditto GS and Cray. We should all feel free to share whatever we feel and whatever works for us.
Jo
"True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country." - Kurt Vonnegut
ditto, ditto, ditto
Beautifully said by all!!
♥"Kindness and truth have met, righteousness and peace have kissed." Psalm 85♥